Date   

Re: Rowing machine recommendation?

Debbie Natelson
 

Good discussions so far...just fyi, I've heard the concept II rowing machines are backlogged in terms of ordering a new one.  The pandemic has forced a lot of people, rowers and just folks locked out of their gyms to turn to ergs as an efficient way to keep in shape.  My friend has been trying to order one for his 86 yr old mom! ....(yes, she was rowing regularly w San Francisco Parks Dept rowing program....until Covid put the breaks on team rowing.... The kids noticed their mom aging more all of a sudden... so I suggested they get her "back in the saddle" with an erg. My friend's been on a wait list for a few months now... Covid may be bad for some businesses, but certainly not for Concept II.
Good luck.

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 3:01 PM Michael Lampi <soundrowers.board@...> wrote:
Thanks! I guess the Concept 2 is the way to go after all...


Re: Rowing machine recommendation?

Michael Lampi
 

Thanks! I guess the Concept 2 is the way to go after all...


Re: Rowing machine recommendation?

Bob Miller
 

I'm sure there are other options if a good workout is the only priority. If, however, one wants to compare progress and performances as well as compete (both in time rankings and in internet connected competitions) with the world wide rowing community there's no option other than a Concept 2. I can't speak for everybody, but the supporting ecosystem is a hugely significant motivation enabler. 

Bob Miller 

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 11:46am Michael Lampi  wrote:

Asking for a friend: What's a reasonably good rowing machine to get these days? While I see the Concept 2 Models D & E most frequently in the few exercise gyms or rowing clubs or cruise ships I've visited, they seem to be a bit spartan and high priced compared to what is available.

Thanks!

Michael Lampi      

 


Bob Miller
ramiller@...


Re: Rowing machine recommendation?

Rod Sternagel
 

Hey Michael,

It depends on what you are looking for. Your assessment of Concept 2 is correct, however it is the standard machine used for competitions, both virtual and live, so it is popular for that reason at a minimum. They are also well built and can take a fair amount of abuse which is one of the reasons they are popular in gyms. On the downside (from my viewpoint), their primary purposes are to develop strength and endurance — not sculling technique. Concept 2 does have a couple of options that help a little with technique — they make a Dynamic model (which is what I have) and a slide to mount on the Model D. Both of these force you into getting the  timing and rythem of a stroke closer to what makes a scull move more efficiently through the water. 

If you do not care about the competition aspect and want one that is cheaper, with more features, or with a closer approximation of sculling, there are lots of options. Water rowers are popular (they use water for resistance rather than a fan). There are a few that simulate sculling more closely. I have not done much comparison shopping over the years other than try out a few of them at different rowing events so I cannot be of much help there.

~Rod



On Nov 27, 2020, at 11:34 AM, Michael Lampi <soundrowers.board@...> wrote:

Asking for a friend: What's a reasonably good rowing machine to get these days? While I see the Concept 2 Models D & E most frequently in the few exercise gyms or rowing clubs or cruise ships I've visited, they seem to be a bit spartan and high priced compared to what is available.

Thanks!

Michael Lampi


Re: Rowing machine recommendation?

Peter Hirtle
 

Concept 2 is the industry standard and they are built to last.  RP3 is a better rowing simulator but is more expensive and not as rugged.

Peter

Sent from here.


On Friday, November 27, 2020, 11:34:31 AM PST, Michael Lampi <soundrowers.board@...> wrote:


Asking for a friend: What's a reasonably good rowing machine to get these days? While I see the Concept 2 Models D & E most frequently in the few exercise gyms or rowing clubs or cruise ships I've visited, they seem to be a bit spartan and high priced compared to what is available.

Thanks!

Michael Lampi


Rowing machine recommendation?

Michael Lampi
 

Asking for a friend: What's a reasonably good rowing machine to get these days? While I see the Concept 2 Models D & E most frequently in the few exercise gyms or rowing clubs or cruise ships I've visited, they seem to be a bit spartan and high priced compared to what is available.

Thanks!

Michael Lampi


Zoom race #2

Peter & Vanessa
 


Re: Zoom race 1

Herbie Weisse
 

Congrats on another zoom race !  This is a great idea.

- Herb & Carrie

On Sep 8, 2020, at 10:00 PM, Az <amberzip@...> wrote:

Race details can also be found on the Virtual Races page of the Sound Rowers website. 




On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 7:42 PM Peter & Vanessa <pvturcan@...> wrote:
Racers,

Here is the sign up sheet:


Here are the updated rules, thanks for all the feedback:

Sound Rowers Zoom race #1: 10am Saturday 12th September
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to Sound Rowers members, and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go. Alternatively, you can just cruise, and mark your entry without a distance.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start (within 1Km of your start location). Tidal water is OK.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS. If you lose the signal, just stop after an hour and record your distance.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be sent to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.

Hope to see you there!

<noname.png>






Re: Zoom race 1

Peter & Vanessa
 

Hopefully you have just started paddling and can can let us know your distance afterwards!


On 10/03/2020 10:04 AM Rod Sternagel <rod.sternagel@...> wrote:


Having trouble getting into zoom



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Peter & Vanessa <pvturcan@...>
Date: 10/1/20 6:53 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@SoundRowers.groups.io, Az <amberzip@...>
Subject: Re: [SoundRowers] Zoom race 1

Zoom race re-activated for this coming Saturday!


On 09/11/2020 11:51 AM PETER TURCAN <pvturcan@...> wrote:


Zoom race will be postponed. Air quality is so poor beaches/boat ramps are closed.

Stay healthy.


On 09/08/2020 10:00 PM Az <amberzip@...> wrote:


Race details can also be found on the Virtual Races page of the Sound Rowers website. 




On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 7:42 PM Peter & Vanessa < pvturcan@...> wrote:
Racers,

Here is the sign up sheet:


Here are the updated rules, thanks for all the feedback:

Sound Rowers Zoom race #1: 10am Saturday 12th September
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to Sound Rowers members, and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go. Alternatively, you can just cruise, and mark your entry without a distance.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start (within 1Km of your start location). Tidal water is OK.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS. If you lose the signal, just stop after an hour and record your distance.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be sent to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.

Hope to see you there!






Re: Zoom race 1

Rod Sternagel
 

Having trouble getting into zoom



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Peter & Vanessa <pvturcan@...>
Date: 10/1/20 6:53 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@SoundRowers.groups.io, Az <amberzip@...>
Subject: Re: [SoundRowers] Zoom race 1

Zoom race re-activated for this coming Saturday!


On 09/11/2020 11:51 AM PETER TURCAN <pvturcan@...> wrote:


Zoom race will be postponed. Air quality is so poor beaches/boat ramps are closed.

Stay healthy.


On 09/08/2020 10:00 PM Az <amberzip@...> wrote:


Race details can also be found on the Virtual Races page of the Sound Rowers website. 




On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 7:42 PM Peter & Vanessa < pvturcan@...> wrote:
Racers,

Here is the sign up sheet:


Here are the updated rules, thanks for all the feedback:

Sound Rowers Zoom race #1: 10am Saturday 12th September
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to Sound Rowers members, and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go. Alternatively, you can just cruise, and mark your entry without a distance.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start (within 1Km of your start location). Tidal water is OK.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS. If you lose the signal, just stop after an hour and record your distance.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be sent to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.

Hope to see you there!






Re: Zoom race 1

Peter & Vanessa
 

Zoom race re-activated for this coming Saturday!


On 09/11/2020 11:51 AM PETER TURCAN <pvturcan@...> wrote:


Zoom race will be postponed. Air quality is so poor beaches/boat ramps are closed.

Stay healthy.


On 09/08/2020 10:00 PM Az <amberzip@...> wrote:


Race details can also be found on the Virtual Races page of the Sound Rowers website. 




On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 7:42 PM Peter & Vanessa < pvturcan@...> wrote:
Racers,

Here is the sign up sheet:


Here are the updated rules, thanks for all the feedback:

Sound Rowers Zoom race #1: 10am Saturday 12th September
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to Sound Rowers members, and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go. Alternatively, you can just cruise, and mark your entry without a distance.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start (within 1Km of your start location). Tidal water is OK.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS. If you lose the signal, just stop after an hour and record your distance.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be sent to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.

Hope to see you there!






Re: Zoom race 1

Peter & Vanessa
 

Zoom race will be postponed. Air quality is so poor beaches/boat ramps are closed.

Stay healthy.


On 09/08/2020 10:00 PM Az <amberzip@...> wrote:


Race details can also be found on the Virtual Races page of the Sound Rowers website. 




On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 7:42 PM Peter & Vanessa < pvturcan@...> wrote:
Racers,

Here is the sign up sheet:


Here are the updated rules, thanks for all the feedback:

Sound Rowers Zoom race #1: 10am Saturday 12th September
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to Sound Rowers members, and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go. Alternatively, you can just cruise, and mark your entry without a distance.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start (within 1Km of your start location). Tidal water is OK.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS. If you lose the signal, just stop after an hour and record your distance.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be sent to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.

Hope to see you there!






Re: Zoom race 1

Az
 

Race details can also be found on the Virtual Races page of the Sound Rowers website. 




On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 7:42 PM Peter & Vanessa <pvturcan@...> wrote:
Racers,

Here is the sign up sheet:


Here are the updated rules, thanks for all the feedback:

Sound Rowers Zoom race #1: 10am Saturday 12th September
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to Sound Rowers members, and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go. Alternatively, you can just cruise, and mark your entry without a distance.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start (within 1Km of your start location). Tidal water is OK.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS. If you lose the signal, just stop after an hour and record your distance.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be sent to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.

Hope to see you there!




Re: Zoom race 1

MICHAEL WALSH
 

I saw it and I am not on the board!

On 09/08/2020 3:02 PM Rod Sternagel <rod.sternagel@...> wrote:


Hey Peter,

Did this just go to the board and race directors? I don’t see anything on Facebook or our web page. Or is the first one a trial run?

~Rod




On Sep 4, 2020, at 7:41 PM, Peter & Vanessa < pvturcan@...> wrote:

Racers,

Here is the sign up sheet:


Here are the updated rules, thanks for all the feedback:

Sound Rowers Zoom race #1: 10am Saturday 12th September
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to Sound Rowers members, and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go. Alternatively, you can just cruise, and mark your entry without a distance.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start (within 1Km of your start location). Tidal water is OK.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS. If you lose the signal, just stop after an hour and record your distance.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be sent to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.

Hope to see you there!

<Mail Attachment.png>




Re: Zoom race 1

Rod Sternagel
 

Hey Peter,

Did this just go to the board and race directors? I don’t see anything on Facebook or our web page. Or is the first one a trial run?

~Rod




On Sep 4, 2020, at 7:41 PM, Peter & Vanessa <pvturcan@...> wrote:

Racers,

Here is the sign up sheet:


Here are the updated rules, thanks for all the feedback:

Sound Rowers Zoom race #1: 10am Saturday 12th September
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to Sound Rowers members, and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go. Alternatively, you can just cruise, and mark your entry without a distance.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start (within 1Km of your start location). Tidal water is OK.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS. If you lose the signal, just stop after an hour and record your distance.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be sent to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.

Hope to see you there!

<Mail Attachment.png>




Re: Zoom race 1

Peter & Vanessa
 

Racers,

Here is the sign up sheet:


Here are the updated rules, thanks for all the feedback:

Sound Rowers Zoom race #1: 10am Saturday 12th September
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to Sound Rowers members, and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go. Alternatively, you can just cruise, and mark your entry without a distance.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start (within 1Km of your start location). Tidal water is OK.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS. If you lose the signal, just stop after an hour and record your distance.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be sent to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.

Hope to see you there!




Re: Zoom race

Debbie Natelson
 

As all said above, sounds like great fun...I can't do a Saturdays, however, as usually busy at my cafe....But I'm not really in race shape anyhow.....so just wanted to say Hi to my long lost water pals....and kudos Peter on a very fun idea.

Happy racing,
Debbie Natelson

Debbie Natelson


On Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 8:54 PM Rod Sternagel <rod.sternagel@...> wrote:
I am interested but there is no Saturday Sept. 10th. Did you mean October?

~Rod



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Peter & Vanessa <pvturcan@...>
Date: 9/1/20 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [SoundRowers] Zoom race

Board,

I am thinking of running an online-Zoom on-the-water race. Sending out details something like the following, comments? 



Sound Rowers Zoom race 1: 10am Saturday 10th September
=================================================
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to members and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be mailed to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.


I will be starting at the 14th Ave NW boat launch in Ballard, going up the ship canal, round Lake Union, and back down the ship canal. A 12 Km course. Join me if you live nearby, otherwise any water works.





Re: Zoom race

Rod Sternagel
 

I am interested but there is no Saturday Sept. 10th. Did you mean October?

~Rod



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Peter & Vanessa <pvturcan@...>
Date: 9/1/20 3:32 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@SoundRowers.groups.io
Subject: [SoundRowers] Zoom race

Board,

I am thinking of running an online-Zoom on-the-water race. Sending out details something like the following, comments? 



Sound Rowers Zoom race 1: 10am Saturday 10th September
=================================================
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to members and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be mailed to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.


I will be starting at the 14th Ave NW boat launch in Ballard, going up the ship canal, round Lake Union, and back down the ship canal. A 12 Km course. Join me if you live nearby, otherwise any water works.





Re: Zoom race

carrie weisse
 

Since this is a timed race I would not necessarily be back to my start point.  Is it a requirement to be back exactly at my start?  For example I could row along the coast and turn around. The tides would determine actual speed. I may need to row against the tide for  35 min and then with the tide for maybe 25 min to be back at the start in exactly an hour.  

May be a good idea to require the race be run on non-tidal water, non-current water, such as a lake.

Lastly, could we do a trial race to determine if the zoom method works? I'd need to find somewhere with a good internet connection.  What happens if we lose the connection in the middle of the "race"?

Thanks. Great idea!

Carrie Weisse

On Tuesday, September 1, 2020, 3:32:54 PM PDT, Peter & Vanessa <pvturcan@...> wrote:


Board,

I am thinking of running an online-Zoom on-the-water race. Sending out details something like the following, comments? 



Sound Rowers Zoom race 1: 10am Saturday 10th September
=================================================
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to members and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be mailed to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.


I will be starting at the 14th Ave NW boat launch in Ballard, going up the ship canal, round Lake Union, and back down the ship canal. A 12 Km course. Join me if you live nearby, otherwise any water works.





Re: Zoom race

Peter Hirtle
 

Hi Peter,

I am OK without the racing but I sure miss seeing everyone!

Peter

Sent from here.


On Tuesday, September 1, 2020, 3:32:54 PM PDT, Peter & Vanessa <pvturcan@...> wrote:


Board,

I am thinking of running an online-Zoom on-the-water race. Sending out details something like the following, comments? 



Sound Rowers Zoom race 1: 10am Saturday 10th September
=================================================
This is an open water race, for any human-powered craft. Entry is free, to members and non-members.

Rules:

0. A Zoom link will appear in the Google signup sheet, before the race.
1. The race is for the period of exactly 1 hour, determined by how far you go.
2. Wear a mask whilst on land, before and after racing.
3. You can select your own race course, any open water, but the course must be a loop, or out-and-back. You must finish more or less where you start.
4. Use your smartphone (ideally perhaps in a waterproof case) to log into the Zoom call, and the start will be a verbal "Go".
5. After exactly one hour, "Stop" will be called, and record your distance, ideally using GPS.
6. Write up your distance, comments, race course, etc., in the Google sign up sheet.
7. Digital ribbons will be mailed to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class. Normal Sound Rowers classes apply.


I will be starting at the 14th Ave NW boat launch in Ballard, going up the ship canal, round Lake Union, and back down the ship canal. A 12 Km course. Join me if you live nearby, otherwise any water works.